Sunday, January 28, 2007

How to debate an IDiot

The following is based on no debate, past or present (though it would be fun to see it in the future), and is simply the product of my fevered imagination.

Reverend White (IDiot): ...As you can see, due to the immense fine-tuning of universal constants necessary to result in life, the universe as we see it could not have come about simply by chance. Therefore, we have no choice but to accept that it was indeed God who created it.

Nate Black (Atheist and professional Alter Ego): Okay, first of all, you've proven no such thing about the universe coming into existence "by chance." Even if all your math were correct (which it isn't), the best you've shown is that, if a single universe were created, it's unlikely that it would turn out exactly like this. You're completely ignoring not only good math but the fact that science makes no demand for only a single universe with one set of laws existing. Come on, your own theory goes and postulates a god that doesn't follow the same laws of this universe!

But besides that, there's one other big problem: You jump from "There must have been a designer" to "Our particular version of God must have been the designer." You're completely ignoring any alternative desiger.

White: Well come on, what other logical choice is there for a designer? It was Alvin Plantinga who proved that "God is the best explanation for the beginning of the universe." If you've got a better explanation, I'd like to hear it!

Black: First of all, he didn't prove it, he said it. And as for a better explanation, how about... oh, I don't know... me? Fine! I admit it! I created the universe. Are you happy?

White (stunned): You did not create the universe. You're just a human, not a god.

Black: Well, I'm more powerful than your god. Pray to him with all your heart, he does nothing. Pray to me half-heartedly and there's a good chance I'll do something.

White: He works in mysterious ways!

Black: And I work in obvious ways! For instance, if I think you're a bastard, I go over there and slug you. If your god thinks you're a bastard, he waits until you're dead, then he maybe does something to your soul - which may or may not exist. Maybe. Who do you think is more capable of performing the very obvious action of creating a universe?

White: You did not create the universe!

Black: Prove it!

White: What? Why should I have to prove it? You're the one who made the outrageous claim!

Black: So the person making the outrageous claim should be the one to prove it? Interesting. Well, didn't I already show that my outrageous claim was more reasonable than your outrageous claim? Why don't you start by proving that?

White: It's believed by billions of people worldwide, while your claim probably isn't even believed by you! Isn't that enough?

Black: So if I go around and convince billions of people of my claim, reality will suddenly change and it will become true? Try again.

White: Well, we have a book written by our God as evidence that he created the universe.

Black: I could write a book saying I created the universe. I could even make sure it doesn't contradict itself and makes a lot more sense.

White: Well our book was written two thousand years ago, it wasn't something written in the past few days!

Black: So if I wait two thousand years after writing my book, that will also cause reality to change and make it true?

White: No, because you didn't create the universe!

Black: A claim which you still have yet to prove.

White: You're the Anti-Christ, aren't you?

Black: What gave it away?


Berlzebub said...


I'm going to be referencing this one to trolls often.

Are you sure that was a pseudodebate?

Infophile said...

While this debate never happened exactly like this, I have heard every one of those arguments before. Most of the ones near the end came from Cocksnack in various posts, while the introductory arguments were found at